This is the truest thing I have ever read (at least this week and it’s already Wednesday) and it’s shocking how little people understand that being COMPETENT is one of the most important and attractive qualities anyone can possess. Preach, amen, standing ovations, mic drop.
Once upon a time I represented a serial rapist, pro bono. He got fan mail from attractive women. The attraction of very bad men to a non-trivial number of women is real, and not usually talked about. This article suggests that Tony Soprano is attractive despite being a killer. But his lawlessness and capacity for violence are surely part of the allure, though mostly as a fantasy. Most adult women would have the sense to stay away if they knew what the man actually was.
I don’t know what the percentage is. He never had a shortage of attractive women sending him pictures. Mass murderers, gangsters, other notorious prisoners are similar. This is a well established phenomenon. It’s an extreme case of something that’s universal, feeling attraction to aggressive men. As I noted, most women have the common sense not to respond to that attraction, but many of them feel it.
It was a pro bono case in the firm where I used to work. A senior guy asked me to handle the trial. Not sure why he took the case on. The client had been convicted twenty years earlier, served his sentence without causing any trouble. He was being tried for civil commitment as a sexually violent person. The statute provides a jury trial for that. In effect that civil commitment for "treatment" is a life sentence. The state never finds that any sex offender is "cured". We lost at trial, juries never let these guys out. The judge said that our jury deliberating for 45 minutes was about 35 minutes longer than usual. I left the firm and my colleagues lost on appeal. The client died in the "treatment facility," which is really a maximum security prison, a few years ago.
I understand, thanks for sharing. Good to hear that the jury and courts recognized the imminent threat that a person like this poses. Unfortunately, in some cities and districts, it seems like this is no longer the norm.
Lawyers don't always represent nice people. But even the worst people are entitled to be represented, and the state is required to prove its case before it can lock anybody up. Still, I would not want to work on another case like that one.
It occurs to me how much as a society we've gone astray, lost our way, fail to honor our institutions' clear purpose ... and so it's all unravelling. I wonder what the trigger was that turned us away. Dysfunction now seems the norm.
Okay - didn't know Tony Soprano being attractive was a thing. Can't make myself feel it even if I try. But I am going down this list and nodding and smiling, thinking of my husband who checks all these boxes and more. Maybe that's why I can't see it for Tony?
Here's my unsolicited take: I think y'all just need to stop dating guys with email jobs. My baby's been a builder for 15 years and to become a better partner I literally had to train myself not to turn my brain off around him, because he has such a competent aura that no one makes him feel looked out for - everyone else in his life instinctively turns their brain off around him too. Took me a while to catch on to that.
I thought I wasn't into men at all. Turns out I just don't see the crossfit work from home phone addicted dudes as adults, and the flower-arranging, vegetable-gardening, birdwatching, woodworking butch lesbian of my dreams happened to be a man. Life is funny.
Find you a man who works in the trades and you might not be so floored by ol' Tone. I'm just sayin'.
So much truth here. My husband is courageous and genuinely likes women, but he's lost the ease he used to have; he always seems to be defensive. It's a real shame, but the culture wars have had a real effect on his affable and charming nature because he feels he's going to say or do something that's going to be criticized. I wish I could have the man I married back.
I’m a man entering middle age who’s noticed myself and my friends losing that ease as well. The culture war stuff is a small factor but for me it’s mostly due to having a much more complex web of commitments at this life stage, much higher stakes if I screw up, and being acutely aware of that at all times.
Of course, women face the exact same circumstances as they age, but seem to be better at turning outwards and leveraging their support networks, while men tend to turn inwards out of fear of seeming weak or incompetent.
Just my perspective, I wish you and your husband well.
That's actually really helpful. I never considered it from that perspective. I'll have to think about that for a while...I've definitely noticed that he seems weighted down and anxious a lot more. Interestingly, I've become significantly more introverted as I've aged and have almost completely lost my social network, while he has maintained his. Food for thought.
All I need to know about a man I can glean from whether he changes the topic/ tone when I walk into a circle of him talking to other men. Also…clean nails.
What great writing, you describe the irresistible manliness perfectly! Made me want to watch the Sopranos and fill this cultural gap.
Maybe it’s about a certain broadness of character and a big heart too, meaning he isn’t petty not just in a material sense but overall, a kindness and generosity of spirit, which seems to be like the Tony character you describe.
Think there is a strong cultural component too like basic chivalry. Remember years ago, we had a British English Lit professor we thought was hot until someone shared that she saw him coming out of a supermarket with a girlfriend, and the girlfriend was laden with half the groceries like a mule next to him, that’s where his hotness ended for everyone. This regarding basic things like holding doors, coats, carrying suitcases etc.
Also think “deactivating safety measures” activates the femininity, because if he’s a bona fide man, you can relax and be a woman.
Can we really divorce all his seemingly good traits from his being a murderer, womanizer, serial cheater, manipulator etc?? To say this has nothing to do with his allure is to misunderstand his character
Interesting. Tony is attractive on many levels despite treating sex like taking a shit, treating his wife like an annoying maid/cook, intimidating his children, brutally murdering rivals, and screaming at his therapist for not screwing him. Despite these core faults (constantly on display) his ability to choose a car color or joke around charmingly supersedes all the other stuff. Young available men must be an insufferable lot if Tony the pig can be seen as a catch.
Bravo. A beautifully written, poignantly honest, and thoughtfully phrased piece that really, ought to have any bloke worth his salt taking notes and actively working on upping his game. Thank you for sharing your opinions about modern day relationships. A truly inspiring read that deserves a wider audience. Come on guys, it’s time to admit you know a damn sight less about being a decent human being than you think you do. None of this shit is difficult… IF you’re willing to be honest with yourself, and with the women in your lives.
Stop pandering to these types of women. Grow a set and be yourself, not what the modern narcissistic woman wants you to be. We're not their damn slaves who have to constantly change our costume for their entertainment.
Wonderful writing, humorous and insightful. You've also explained why women I've known loved a pair of shoes that were painfully bad for their feet and posture. And you've characterized a political landscape where voters ignore a mountain of negative attributes in favor of certain appeal. And you've lassoed all of us who make choices everyday that keep us happy despite the consequences (of irrationality). And I'll stop here before I mention the grocery store aisles.
ok i once wrote erotic fan fiction about big Tone in a now-defunct tumblr and this was so moving. & my god, WHAT A PIC of his crinkly-eyed smile at the end 🥺
This is the truest thing I have ever read (at least this week and it’s already Wednesday) and it’s shocking how little people understand that being COMPETENT is one of the most important and attractive qualities anyone can possess. Preach, amen, standing ovations, mic drop.
Once upon a time I represented a serial rapist, pro bono. He got fan mail from attractive women. The attraction of very bad men to a non-trivial number of women is real, and not usually talked about. This article suggests that Tony Soprano is attractive despite being a killer. But his lawlessness and capacity for violence are surely part of the allure, though mostly as a fantasy. Most adult women would have the sense to stay away if they knew what the man actually was.
I don’t know what the percentage is. He never had a shortage of attractive women sending him pictures. Mass murderers, gangsters, other notorious prisoners are similar. This is a well established phenomenon. It’s an extreme case of something that’s universal, feeling attraction to aggressive men. As I noted, most women have the common sense not to respond to that attraction, but many of them feel it.
What percentage of women do you ACTUALLY think would want to write a letter to a serial rapist?
If you don’t mind me asking, why did you represent him?
It was a pro bono case in the firm where I used to work. A senior guy asked me to handle the trial. Not sure why he took the case on. The client had been convicted twenty years earlier, served his sentence without causing any trouble. He was being tried for civil commitment as a sexually violent person. The statute provides a jury trial for that. In effect that civil commitment for "treatment" is a life sentence. The state never finds that any sex offender is "cured". We lost at trial, juries never let these guys out. The judge said that our jury deliberating for 45 minutes was about 35 minutes longer than usual. I left the firm and my colleagues lost on appeal. The client died in the "treatment facility," which is really a maximum security prison, a few years ago.
I understand, thanks for sharing. Good to hear that the jury and courts recognized the imminent threat that a person like this poses. Unfortunately, in some cities and districts, it seems like this is no longer the norm.
Lawyers don't always represent nice people. But even the worst people are entitled to be represented, and the state is required to prove its case before it can lock anybody up. Still, I would not want to work on another case like that one.
Yes. They are entitled to legal representation and the state definitely has to prove their case.
It occurs to me how much as a society we've gone astray, lost our way, fail to honor our institutions' clear purpose ... and so it's all unravelling. I wonder what the trigger was that turned us away. Dysfunction now seems the norm.
Okay - didn't know Tony Soprano being attractive was a thing. Can't make myself feel it even if I try. But I am going down this list and nodding and smiling, thinking of my husband who checks all these boxes and more. Maybe that's why I can't see it for Tony?
Here's my unsolicited take: I think y'all just need to stop dating guys with email jobs. My baby's been a builder for 15 years and to become a better partner I literally had to train myself not to turn my brain off around him, because he has such a competent aura that no one makes him feel looked out for - everyone else in his life instinctively turns their brain off around him too. Took me a while to catch on to that.
I thought I wasn't into men at all. Turns out I just don't see the crossfit work from home phone addicted dudes as adults, and the flower-arranging, vegetable-gardening, birdwatching, woodworking butch lesbian of my dreams happened to be a man. Life is funny.
Find you a man who works in the trades and you might not be so floored by ol' Tone. I'm just sayin'.
Nazis can build things, and civil rights lawyers send lots of emails, but ok
I don't think she meant that you should literally only have one qualification for who you try to date...
What a bizarre suggestion
Omg hahaha the unwashed navy sheets...WHY is this a near-universal experience
So much truth here. My husband is courageous and genuinely likes women, but he's lost the ease he used to have; he always seems to be defensive. It's a real shame, but the culture wars have had a real effect on his affable and charming nature because he feels he's going to say or do something that's going to be criticized. I wish I could have the man I married back.
I’m a man entering middle age who’s noticed myself and my friends losing that ease as well. The culture war stuff is a small factor but for me it’s mostly due to having a much more complex web of commitments at this life stage, much higher stakes if I screw up, and being acutely aware of that at all times.
Of course, women face the exact same circumstances as they age, but seem to be better at turning outwards and leveraging their support networks, while men tend to turn inwards out of fear of seeming weak or incompetent.
Just my perspective, I wish you and your husband well.
That's actually really helpful. I never considered it from that perspective. I'll have to think about that for a while...I've definitely noticed that he seems weighted down and anxious a lot more. Interestingly, I've become significantly more introverted as I've aged and have almost completely lost my social network, while he has maintained his. Food for thought.
All I need to know about a man I can glean from whether he changes the topic/ tone when I walk into a circle of him talking to other men. Also…clean nails.
! clean and SHORT
Yup I put that in notes - PSA
My worst ever bf…abusive…had dirty nails often. 🤮
What great writing, you describe the irresistible manliness perfectly! Made me want to watch the Sopranos and fill this cultural gap.
Maybe it’s about a certain broadness of character and a big heart too, meaning he isn’t petty not just in a material sense but overall, a kindness and generosity of spirit, which seems to be like the Tony character you describe.
Think there is a strong cultural component too like basic chivalry. Remember years ago, we had a British English Lit professor we thought was hot until someone shared that she saw him coming out of a supermarket with a girlfriend, and the girlfriend was laden with half the groceries like a mule next to him, that’s where his hotness ended for everyone. This regarding basic things like holding doors, coats, carrying suitcases etc.
Also think “deactivating safety measures” activates the femininity, because if he’s a bona fide man, you can relax and be a woman.
That last statement is so spot-on!
Can we really divorce all his seemingly good traits from his being a murderer, womanizer, serial cheater, manipulator etc?? To say this has nothing to do with his allure is to misunderstand his character
a man who goes to therapy 🙂↕️
Does the fact that he keeps it a secret and either kills or severely injures anyone who mentions it make that point better or worse?
Interesting. Tony is attractive on many levels despite treating sex like taking a shit, treating his wife like an annoying maid/cook, intimidating his children, brutally murdering rivals, and screaming at his therapist for not screwing him. Despite these core faults (constantly on display) his ability to choose a car color or joke around charmingly supersedes all the other stuff. Young available men must be an insufferable lot if Tony the pig can be seen as a catch.
That whooshing noise is the title of this post going over your head.
The crickets chirping are filling the space where you might have said something.
Read the piece again! It’s about *competence* and not needing to self-regard for approval and *liking women*.
I don’t even watch the Sopranos but I found myself warmly nodding along on all points.
>power is only a small part of the equation
>his most attractive qualities are the competence to solve problems and the safety he provides
lol, and what are these, if not literal power to protect and solve issues?
Bravo. A beautifully written, poignantly honest, and thoughtfully phrased piece that really, ought to have any bloke worth his salt taking notes and actively working on upping his game. Thank you for sharing your opinions about modern day relationships. A truly inspiring read that deserves a wider audience. Come on guys, it’s time to admit you know a damn sight less about being a decent human being than you think you do. None of this shit is difficult… IF you’re willing to be honest with yourself, and with the women in your lives.
Stop pandering to these types of women. Grow a set and be yourself, not what the modern narcissistic woman wants you to be. We're not their damn slaves who have to constantly change our costume for their entertainment.
Oh, the irony.
Wonderful writing, humorous and insightful. You've also explained why women I've known loved a pair of shoes that were painfully bad for their feet and posture. And you've characterized a political landscape where voters ignore a mountain of negative attributes in favor of certain appeal. And you've lassoed all of us who make choices everyday that keep us happy despite the consequences (of irrationality). And I'll stop here before I mention the grocery store aisles.
ok i once wrote erotic fan fiction about big Tone in a now-defunct tumblr and this was so moving. & my god, WHAT A PIC of his crinkly-eyed smile at the end 🥺
I think I’m going to forward this to every ex of mine who couldn’t even take out the trash. Thank you for this all important PSA.